Summary
Boston Children`s Hospital was targeted by violent right-wing threats as online conspiracy theories target trans community. Donald Trump team claimed boxes at Mar-a-Lago were only news clippings. Rep. Eric Swalwell (D-CA) joins Hayes to discuss on the special master appointed to review Mar-a-Lago documents. New Hampshire, Delaware and Rhode Island all had their primary elections, the last primaries of the season, which means the candidates who won on Tuesday night have the least amount of time to gracefully transition from primary mode to general election mode. Despite a slew of factors that would traditionally give Republicans an advantage in the midterm elections this fall, new polling shows Democrats are still surprisingly competitive. On April 10th, 1990, Phillip Pannell a 16-year- old black teenager was shot and killed by a white police officer in the town of Teaneck, New Jersey.
Transcript
JOY REID, MSNBC HOST: OK, who I believe won the week especially with all the people who are so mad about the Black Little Mermaid. I say Black actresses won the week. Sheryl Lee Ralph, you, incredible, Quinta Brunson, Lizzo, Zendaya, Halle Bailey, all of the great black actresses who are out there doing the damn thing won the week. Sheryl Lee Ralph, thank you very much.
And that is tonight`s REIDOUT, everybody. Thank you very much, Sheryl Lee Ralph. I love you and appreciate you. And that`s it. "ALL IN WITH CHRIS HAYES" starts now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HAYES, MSNBC HOST (voiceover): Tonight on ALL IN.
HUGH HEWITT, RADIO HOST: What kind of problems Mr. President.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think you`d have big problems.
HAYES: As Justice continues its pursuit of the ex-president, why no one has to imagine the big problems Donald Trump is threatening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The caller said in part, "There is a bomb on the way to the hospital. You better evacuate everybody, you sickos."
HAYES: Then, new reporting on the lies leading up to the Mar-a-Lago search as the Department of Justice appeals the Special Master ruling. And 53 days to November 8th.
DON BOLDUC (R-NH), SENATE CANDIDATE: I signed a letter with 120 other generals and admirals saying that Trump won the election. And damn it, I stand by my letter.
HAYES: Will voters buy a head-snapping Republican pivot toward democracy?
DANA PERINO, ANCHOR, FOX NEWS CHANNEL: Do you stand by that today?
BOLDUC: So, you know, we -- you know, live and learn, right?
HAYES: When ALL IN starts right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: Good evening from New York. Happy Friday. I am Chris Hayes. With less than two months to go before the Midterm Elections, the Republican Party finds itself in considerably worse shape than they had expected. We`ve got new polling out today from New York Times. It shows that 46 percent of registered voters said they would be more likely to vote for the Democratic candidate for Congress in their district if the election were held today, compared to 44 percent who said they would vote for the Republican.
Now, that`s within the margin of error. But even if we consider the parties as neck and neck, a coin toss, this is not how it was supposed to go. Go back to spring for instance, May, Republicans expected to sweep the Midterm races this November, particularly with inflation raging, a Democratic president whose approval rating hovered around 38 percent. There was a bunch of reasons why that no longer appears to be the likely outcome.
A crucial reason is a majority of this country, loves and cherishes our democracy. They want to preserve the American experiment, protect self- governance, and a majority of Americans also don`t like Donald Trump. That would be the man who instigated a violent coup against the democratically elected government, and yet he still retains his chokehold on the Republican Party.
This is one of the central features of American politics over the last two years, a kind of mystery in some ways we keep coming back to. Why won`t Republican politicians, now that he`s out of office, throw Donald Trump overboard for their own good politically if for no other reason? There`s a bunch of answers to that question. We`ve gone through them here. The ex- President still rakes in a lot of fundraising dollars for one.Many Republicans think they need him. They need Trump to excite the Trump MAGA base and turnout their voters. A whole bunch of others in the Republican Party are just genuinely true believers. They like Trump. They like Trumpism. They like the whole shtick.
But there`s another major factor. And it`s one that always looms over Republican politics and playing into these dynamics, which is that if you cross Donald Trump and his base, you will likely find yourself in the vortex of debilitating harassment, threats of violence, and maybe even actual violence.
Remember what happened to Rusty Bowers? It`s the conservative pro-life speaker of the Arizona House who refused to go along with Donald Trump`s coup and overturn the will of the voters in his state. He was pressured again and again and again. And he said no again and again. I cannot break my oath to the Constitution, nor my faith. He delivered incredibly compelling testimony before the January 6 Committee detailing the threats he faced and the lies spewed about him in his own community while his daughter lay dying of cancer inside his home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUSTY BOWERS, SPEAKER, ARIZONA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: We have various groups come by and they have had video -- paneled trucks with videos of me proclaiming me to be a pedophile and a pervert and a corrupt politician and blaring loudspeakers in my neighborhood and leaving literature both on my property, arguing and threatening with neighbors and with myself.
At the same time, on some of these, we had a daughter who was gravely ill who was upset by what was happening outside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:05:21]
HAYES: Just one example of what can happen if you don`t bend to Donald Trump`s will. In this case, bend to his demand, that you foment a coup, that you go along with it. And the ex-president knows this at some level. I think he does. And he regularly walks just up to the line of making explicit threats. Just yesterday, he did it again, warning conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt of what can happen if he is indicted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEWITT: I`m just asking if there is such a prosecutor and they indict you, would that deter you from running for president again?
TRUMP: I don`t think the people of the United States would stand for it. And as you know, if a thing like that happened, I would have no prohibition against running. You know that. You`ve already --
HEWITT: I do. And that`s what I wanted people to understand. That would not take you out of the arena.
TRUMP: It would not. But I think if it happened, I think you`d have problems in this country the likes of which perhaps we`ve never seen before. I don`t think the people of the United States would stand for it.
HEWITT: What kind of problems, Mr. President?
TRUMP: I think you`d have big problems, big problems. I just don`t think they`d stand for it. They will not -- they will not sit still and stand for this ultimate of hoaxes.
HEWITT: You know that the legacy media will say you`re attempting to incite violence with that statement. How do you respond to what will inevitably --
TRUMP: That`s not -- that`s not inciting. I`m just saying what my opinion is. I don`t think the people of this country would stand for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: There`s a lot there, right? So, notice how when Trump promises "big problems," Hewitt understands that he is threatening violence, right? Immediately, he knows what Donald Trump is saying, even though he`s not part of the legacy media. He gives Trump the opportunity to walk that back, to protect himself, right? You want to say that? The ex-president, the subject of his interview, because of course, everyone who listens to that clip understands exactly what Trump means when he says big problems.
He means there will be blood. That is a threat and that is the promise and it is not an abstraction. We heard about Rusty Bower`s very real, very disturbing experience. Obviously, we saw how the threats of violence played out in a devastating way on January 6 when there was real violence. And even now, and this is sort of bubbles underneath the surface of the news, but I will tell you as someone who watches this, that not a week goes by without a story of some election official or educational civil servant or health administrator getting in the crosshairs of the most vile faction of the MAGA right and finding themselves besieged with harassment and threats.
The most recent victim is Boston Children`s Hospital. Yes, the Children`s Hospital, the top-rated pediatric hospital in the country, the kind of place that treats kids with rare diseases, complex conditions more than any other facility in the nation. Parents and families travel from all over the world to receive care at Boston Children`s. And you can imagine if you`re taking your little tiny child who is sick what a profoundly important place that is to you and the doctors are.
And one of the many services they provide at Boston Children`s Hospital is gender-affirming care for transgender youth. And that has recently made Boston Children`s the place that cares for sick kids a target of malicious misinformation spread online. Some on the far-right accused the hospital are performing hysterectomy is on minors, which of course is not true. But that didn`t matter. No.
The lie spread like wildfire as right-wing figures on Fox News and InfoWars and social media and the whole MAGA crew whipped up a frenzy claiming the hospital which cares for sick children was performing "child mutilation." And as surely as day follows night, Boston Children`s began receiving violent threats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This evening, Boston Children`s Hospital under attack. Doctors and staff facing threats of violence after the hospital says it was the focus of a social media campaign about its treatment of transgender youth. Boston Children`s says the posts are not accurate. Even so, the hospital says the Fallout has been extensive, from threatening emails and phone calls to threats of violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: And then, the same people who helped whip up the frenzy that led to these threats including a bomb threat. The same people started claiming was all hoax, that said the threats were not real, that they were a false flag. There`s even one conservative activists portraying himself as an investigative reporter who was on the case alleging that well, no one called the police about a bomb threat. But it was not a hoax. It`s exactly what it looked like.
[20:10:17]
Yesterday, the FBI announced that they have arrested and charged a Massachusetts woman, a diehard Trump supporter who donated more than $6,000 to his fundraising committee with making a bomb threat against Boston Children`s last month, just one of many in recent weeks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH BONAVOLONTA, FBI SPECIAL AGENT: The hospital has received dozens of hoax threats, including harassing phone calls and emails, individual death threats, and threats of mass casualty attacks.
RACHAEL ROLLINS, U.S. ATTORNEY, DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS: We arrested Catherine -- Kathleen Levy of Westfield, Massachusetts for allegedly sending a threatening communication to Boston Children`s Hospital and its employees.
August 30th, the hospital received a telephonic bomb threat. The hospital operator answered the call. And the caller said in part, "There is a bomb on the way to the hospital. You better evacuate everybody, you sickos."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: I mean, just take a step back for a second. I don`t want to skip past this. This is a place that people come from all over the country with sick kids, their little kid who`s got some rare disorder or genetic complication, and they are terrified and upset. And it`s the worst thing that`s ever happened to them and their family. And they`re in this hospital with these people that are caring for the sick kids.
And this place is getting harassed and threatened and fake bomb threats called in. That`s a real thing that`s happening. It`s all -- it`s very real. And that`s a children`s hospital. Everyone who operates in Republican politics where they have a special venom for traitors have to ask themselves, right, do they want to be the next Rusty Bowers or the next Boston Children`s Hospital?
Brandy Zadrozny is a senior reporter at NBC News focusing on misinformation and extremism particularly online. She has reported on the targeting of Boston Children`s Hospital. Mark Follman is the national affairs editor at Mother Jones. His latest piece is How Trump Spread Incitement and Violence Throughout the Republican Party. And they both join me now.
Brandy, I sort of follow this story as it`s played out, and I find it so monstrous -- both monstrous and just incomprehensible at some level. But at least give us a quick version of how we got to the point that the FBI is announcing the arrest of a woman for calling a bomb threat into a children`s hospital.
BRANDY ZADROZNY, NBC NEWS SENIOR REPORTER: Sure. Thanks, Chris, for having me. For months now, people mostly on TikTok or mostly on Twitter and other social media platforms have been putting new groups in their crosshairs. There have been -- like you said, it`s been school teachers, it`s been librarians, it`s been people who dare think that we should have a diverse workforce or diverse school or people who put up a Black Lives Matter flag at work. And now it`s children`s hospitals and doctors who care for trans people and trans youth.
A couple of months ago, these people -- one is Libs of TikTok, there`s Matt Walsh, you have Chris Rufo who you just mentioned, they`ve been villainizing and literally demonizing these doctors who treat these people for months now. And so, in that time, you can just see it in their mentions, this sicko language, I`ve seen it a million times over because every time they tweet about these doctors, using these doctors faces sometimes and the -- all of the comments are like sickos, demonic, satanic, pedophile, groomer. It`s just disgusting.
And so, people called in bomb threats to Boston Children`s Hospital and have called in threats to all kinds of other children`s hospitals around the country. It`s not just in Boston. And so, now one woman is arrested. And wouldn`t you know it, people have been really quiet today, all of those people, and the people aren`t really -- those people that I mentioned aren`t talking about children`s hospitals today`s as they`re treating trans kids, young adults, or adults. Now, they`re all talking today about educators. And they focus back on teachers today and claiming that sex education is somehow teaching porn.
They`ll probably do that until they get in trouble for that. And then it`ll be deniability. They`ll move on to the next target. But you know, I think you said it really well. These perceived enemies just keep growing. It`s getting incredibly out of hand. Again, teachers, librarians, doctors at children`s hospitals, I can`t imagine where this goes next.
HAYES: Yes, I mean, I want to make a distinction here, right? Because it`s like, you know, we have -- even though I`m part of the legacy media in this humble little TV show who has millions of people watching it, we take that responsibility seriously. And you know, there`s a question, right, about punching up and punching down. And it`s like, you know, public figures, people that are in the public eye, they`re you know, politicians, you can criticize them.
[20:15:12]
But like, what I`ve noticed in that part of the world is the targets are getting more and more obscure, right? I mean, Boston Children`s Hospital is a big public institution, but it`s like a hospital for his kids. And it`s like, oh, here`s some rando education administrator in Idaho who like, it`s just like -- and then all of a sudden, these people who are not public figures. I mean, they`re not public figures, right?
And we saw this with the election workers and the poll workers, exact same logic, of people that are not in the public eye, they`re not used to this kind of thing, all of a sudden, from one day to next, you know, Shaye Moss, you wake up and the vigilante digital mob is either in person at your door or electronically.
And Mark, you write about how -- you went to this conference, I found really fascinating about how this has been embedded in kind of conservative politics and your warnings, and the warnings about what that can mean. Tell me about that conflict?
MARK FOLLMAN, NATIONAL AFFAIRS EDITOR, MOTHER JONES: Yes, well, I`ve talked with threat assessment experts for a long time about planned violence in my study of mass shootings from my book Trigger Points, and also with respect to extremism and the growing political violence in the country. And it`s really important for people to recognize that this is a method -- this is a method of incitement that`s very deliberate.
And I think you`ve laid it out really well. You know, the way that we sort of see this plausible deniability around and the kind of equivocation and backpedaling that we see from Trump and others around him. But they know exactly what they`re doing and they`ve been doing it for a long time. And what I`m hearing from experts in security and threat assessment is that this is actually getting worse in the year and a half plus now since January 6 that there`s been an emboldening process going on among political leaders.
And one of the things that I point out in my piece yesterday is that this is no longer just Trump doing this. There are other Republican leaders who have taken up this tactic and use this kind of ominous language to stir up the extremists base. I think it`s a sign of political concern or desperation among them, frankly, but it`s very dangerous. I mean, I think we can imagine quite vividly what it`s going to lead to because we`ve already seen it, not just with January 6, but if you think back to the Trump presidency, we had two really horrific mass shootings, one in Pittsburgh and one in El Paso, Texas, where the perpetrators were espousing racist claims about an immigrant invasion. I mean, remember how much that rhetoric was being pushed by the Trump White House and Fox News and their allies.
And so, this tactic, this form of rhetoric has real consequences. And we`re seeing it now with Boston Children`s and many other examples around the country. They`ll target groups or institutions, you know, the Justice Department, the FBI, but also individuals, which is especially alarming and insidious I think. When you see ordinary citizens, poll workers, teachers, health care workers being targeted by this tactic, it`s very disturbing.
HAYES: Yes, whenever I see someone`s --you know, again, it`s this strange line that we live in, right, because it`s a world in which like, everything`s online and everyone`s faces and names are in line. But when I`m looking through this in some -- you know, here`s some random doctor, here`s some education administrator, here`s some health care person who`s now like, here`s their face. You know, when that -- when you`re seeing that, it`s like, it just -- it doesn`t feel right. The vibe feel bad. And it is what it looks like, you know, at a certain point, whatever plausible deniability people want to raise about it.
Brandy Zadrozny and Mark Follman, thank you so much for your reporting on this and for joining us tonight.
FOLLMAN: Thank you.
HAYES: Coming up, after Donald Trump`s judge stalls the investigation into the classified documents he stole, new reporting the Trump team has been lying about what Trump took for at least a year. Congressman Eric Swalwell joins me next week.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOYCE VANCE, MSNBC LEGAL ANALYST: It is a terrible ruling for the rule of law and for Americans confidence in the integrity of the courts and of the Justice Department.
MARC FIGLIUZZI, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I`m sure there`s some head- scratching going on right now at FBI Headquarters as to how to proceed here because it`s a nonsensical decision.
ANDREW WEISSMANN, FORMER LEAD PROSECUTOR IN ROBERT MUELLER`S INVESTIGATION: There`s so many outrageous and stupid, frankly, pieces of this decision. I mean, it`s remarkable because you never thought there`s something worse than her last decision, and this actually topped it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: The reality-based legal world continues to pile on Trump-appointed judge Aileen Cannon for her latest unprecedented ruling which blocks the FBI from continuing its investigation into Donald Trump`s apparent theft of classified documents and appointing a special master to review the thousands of documents seized from Trump`s Florida retirement home, including the 100 classified ones, even though there really isn`t a question that the classified ones, at the very least, belong to the U.S. government by definition.
The Department of Justice is expected to appeal Cannon`s ruling but even now we`re learning more about the deception by Trump and his allies. The Washington Post reports "months before National Archives officials retrieved hundreds of classified documents in 15 boxes from former President Donald Trump`s Mar-a-Lago club. They were told that none of the material was sensitive or classified, and that Trump only had 12 boxes of "news clippings." That happened last September. They`ve been lying about what Trump took for over a year at least.
[20:25:13]
Congressman Eric Swalwell, Democrat of California, served as an impeachment manager in Donald Trump`s second impeachment trial for inciting the insurrection. And he joins me now. I mean, Congressman, the latest -- the latest data point we have about the representations they made to the archives is just another in a long line of, you know, 18 months or however long it take -- took to -- of misrepresentations and outright lies about what they had over and over and over and over again. I`m not -- I mean, are you convinced that the FBI has everything that he might have at this point?
REP. ERIC SWALWELL (D-CA): No, no, Chris. And that`s why this ruling has extraordinary consequences on the investigation. And that`s why I hope the DOJ appeals it as quickly as possible so they can continue their investigation. Because if you play this out -- look, the Department of Justice never wanted to make this public. Donald Trump is the one who made the search public. He`s the one who started to challenge parts of the search and he forced their hand, and typically would not prefer as a prosecutor for this type of information about the investigation to be out there. B
ut what do we know about Donald Trump? We know that when you have 300-plus million dollar of military aid, he was willing to leverage that to get dirt on his political opponent with the Ukrainians. So, if he has top secret documents, certainly on the other side of his possession of that, we would want to know what foreign nationals has been in contact with, what foreign nationals around Mar-a-Lago has been in contact with. And that`s all suspended now. And that`s the real risk here is that they can`t proceed to run that to ground.
HAYES: What do you make of the -- you know, Lindsey Graham said this a few weeks ago that there`s going to be riots in the streets. Donald Trump yesterday saying there`s big problems, big problems. There seems, you know, this very clear kind of threat essentially of what would ensue if the ex- President were to be indicted. What do you make of that?
SWALWELL: I see this as a party, a MAGA party that no longer is confident that they can win elections with votes. And so, now, they`re seeking to enact their political will through violence they prefer and they`re more comfortable with violence over voting. And that`s what they are telegraphing here as we go into, you know, the midterm elections.
And so, we have to be very -- you know, we have to make sure the FBI continues and the Department of Homeland Security continues to investigate, you know, home-grown, domestic extremism groups. I see these threats daily, Chris, and they track with what Donald Trump and Lindsey Graham say, and they track with what Kevin McCarthy and other leaders do not say when they could condemn them, but their silence condones it.
And so, I am very worried that we could reach another flashpoint like January 6. But it takes responsible Republicans to unify and speak out against that. Otherwise, every day MAGA Americans will see it as a permissive lane, a green light, if you will to commit violence.
HAYES: There`s also more reporting that Mark Meadows is in the middle of all this. And he was one of the people representing that there was nothing there. There`s also been news that he was subpoenaed by that grand jury out of -- out of Washington, DC. Meadows remains sort of a strange figure, a kind of black hole in the -- in the center of this whole thing. Do you have a theory of what the deal is with Mark Meadows who you served with the U.S. Congress?
SWALWELL: I remember him as being somebody who wanted to be liked by everybody. So, it doesn`t surprise me that he wants to please Donald Trump but also wants to be -- you know, wants to honor the subpoena and turn over text messages, and make sure that, you know, as far as in the mainstream media, he`s still regarded with a good reputation.
And so, because he has no core set of values, he kind of finds himself, you know, stretched in so many different ways. But he is a hub, so to speak, in that he interacted with Donald Trump, he interacted with Rudy Giuliani, and many of you know, the outside groups. And so, he knows a lot about what happened. And so, if we can get all of these text messages from him, and if the Department of Justice can, whether it`s the committee or the DOJ, we`re certainly going to learn a lot about what the President did or did not do on that day.
HAYES: That`s actually quite clarifying, that theory. I mean, someone who doesn`t want to have to choose at a moment of choosing, that that makes a lot of his behavior make a lot more sense. Congressman Eric Swalwell, thanks for your time.
SWALWELL: I saw that all too often. We got elected the same time, and yes, that was 10 years of observation.
HAYES: I appreciate it. Thank you, Congressman.
SWALWELL: Pleasure.
HAYES: Still ahead, even more Republican candidates try and rid themselves with the Trump stain, but he`s pretending to be a moderate for the next seven weeks enough to fool the voters. Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:30:00]
CHRIS HAYES, NBC NEWS HOST: So, earlier this week, New Hampshire, Delaware and Rhode Island all had their primary elections, the last primaries of the season, which means the candidates who won on Tuesday night have the least amount of time to gracefully transition from primary mode to general election mode.
And because of that, we are seeing candidates who campaigned as MAGA Republicans try and do an immediate about-face.
Like for instance, Karoline Leavitt, she`s a young New Hampshire Republican candidate for the house who won her primary in a state that President Joe Biden carried by over seven points in 2020.
[20:35:01]
She`s running in a kind of swingy district. And right after her win, we noticed the change in the Twitter bio.
She scrubbed her Twitter by removing any mention of her work for House Republican Conference Chair Elise Stefanik or ex-President Donald Trump just totally gone.
Or take the guy who won the New Hampshire Republican primary for Senate, Don Bolduc. He will face off against sitting Democratic senator Maggie Hassan.
Now, Bolduc is one of over 120 former top military officials who signed this big letter spreading the big lie that the 2020 election was rigged.
And in 2021, he told The New Yorker he would overturn the election results in 2024 if he deems them fraudulent.
The night he won the primary, he came out holding a shield with the letter V studded with arrows.
But then yesterday, he just amazingly seemed to change his mind about whether the 2020 election was stolen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS CHANNEL HOST: One of the things that Maggie Hassan, the Senate incumbent will say is that you are an election denier, that you deny that President Biden won the 2020 election. And there`s this from August 14th, when you had a debate, watch here.
DON BOLDUC (R), SENATORIAL NOMINEE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE: I signed a letter with 120 other generals and admirals saying that Trump won the election and dammit, I stand by that.
PERINO: Do you stand by that today?
BOLDUC: So, you know, we -- you know, live and learn, right? And I`ve done a lot of research on this. And I`ve spent the past couple of weeks talking to Granite State all over the state from you know, every party, and I have come to the conclusion and I want to be definitive on this. The election was not stolen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: What do you know? Welcome to the party. Election denier? Me? Well done, Bolduc.
Here`s the thing, all these people understand that Donald Trump and pro- coup talk can help win a primary with the base but not that popular at large actually.
For all kinds of reasons, including history, economic conditions, high inflation, Republicans in the upcoming midterm elections should be poised for like a 2010-style sweep. Right now, it`s not looking like that.
As we mentioned off the top, new polling from New York Times and Siena College shows that despite low approval ratings for President Biden, currently 42 percent. And Republican vantage is on a priority of issues like the economy where they lead by 14 points. When it comes to generally who people are going to vote for, Democrats have a narrow two-point advantage. And historically, even that slim lead is an anomaly.
We`re going to talk about what`s up there and what`s going on, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:42:18]
HAYES: Despite a slew of factors that would traditionally give Republicans an advantage in the midterm elections this fall, new polling shows Democrats are still surprisingly competitive. At least that`s not just this poll, a whole bunch of polls have shown them.
Part of that has to do with where Democrats are on social issues. Data from the New York Times Siena College Poll finds that "Democrats held an overwhelming 73 to 18 percent lead among voters who said societal issues like abortion or threats to democracy would be most important in their vote this November, rather than economic issues like jobs and the cost of living".
That same poll shows that voters use the word extreme to describe Republicans more than Democrats by six-point margin.
When it comes to Supreme Court`s decision to end the constitutional right to an abortion, 10 percent of voters somewhat oppose it and 52 percent strongly oppose it. Very lopsided feelings on that issue.
All this makes for a midterm election that might not look like any we`ve seen before.
Molly Murphy is a Democratic pollster and campaign strategist. She`s president of the public opinion research and consulting firm Impact Research and she joins me now.
Molly, does the New York Times poll carry some weight with me because I`ve been very reliable, they do like big samples. And I was really struck by this basic contradiction, which tracks with what we cover here. Right?
Like, it shouldn`t be a very favorable environment for Republicans, it`s not and here are the reasons why. What do you think about it?
MOLLY MURPHY, PRESIDENT, IMPACT RESEARCH (on camera): Well, I think that absolutely the economy is important to voters. All the polling data we`re seeing suggests that but it also suggests that abortion is a number two issue for voters and Democrats are pressing advantages on abortion, but they`re also not ceding ground on the economy.
And so, it`s creating a very competitive environment. To your point, normally, you would not expect Democrats to be this competitive.
HAYES: Yes, on the -- on the -- on the economy, I do wonder how much the decline of gas prices, you know, helps. I mean, there`s all sorts of political science literature that says it`s one of the key variables in presidential approval. When gas prices go up, presidential approval goes down, and vice versa. How much -- how central do you think that is to just this sort of thermometer feeling people have about the economy?
MURPHY: It absolutely plays a day-to-day role. I was just in focus groups in a swing state last week. And when you asked people how they were feeling about the economy, they generally weren`t feeling good about the economy overall.
But caveat to that, well, I have to say, I`ve noticed gas prices are going down. That is a really dominant indicator for voters in their day-to-day lives about how things are going and they`re starting to see that decline.
HAYES: And when they say they haven`t felt good about the economy, that`s inflation specifically they tell you?
MURPHY: Inflation, they talk about how much they`re paying for groceries in particular, and for a long time, gas.
[20:45:05]
HAYES: There`s this thing that happens in campaigns, which is there`s a kind of meta (PH) campaign over what will be the issues that define a campaign, right?
So, if you know that you have a 30-point advantage on abortion, or a 30- point advantage on, you know, democracy, it`s like you`re the -- as a candidate, you want to talk about that.
And if you`re the other one, you want to talk about this stuff that you might have an advantage on, say inflation, or as we`re seeing with this, you know, stunt over the last 48 hours, immigration, right? Where Republicans think they have -- they have an advantage there.
How much can candidates affect what the attentional focus of a race is? Or is that outside their control?
MURPHY: You know, the National Environment is going to play a role in any campaign. And there`s no two ways about that.
But I do think that you`ve got candidates out there who are driving what they have done on the economy, they are not taking the sort of national headwinds on the economy lying down.
And they are out there selling what they`ve done on the economy, whether it is bringing semiconductor chip plants and manufacturing back to the United States, passing prescription drug negotiation reform, things like that, that basically don`t take this line down and paint a picture of themselves as a champion on the economy, while also recognizing that, to your point, there`s an enormous issue on voters minds right now, where Democrats have 20, 30, 40 point advantages, depending on the state. And that`s the issue of abortion.
And so, they`re able to paint a meaningful contrast with Republicans who basically have gone silent on abortion, they`re not fighting the attacks that they are going to ban it.
Lindsey Graham is out there going one step further and promising that he will. And then you`ve got Democrats out there who are absolutely not taking this economic assertion that a bad economy means Democrats are failing lying down.
HAYES: Yes, that`s a great point. Right? So, you`ve got to -- you`ve got to narrow that gap in the economy, and the economy is not something you can just be like, well, I`m just not going to talk about. Like, it`s the central reality for people.
MURPHY: Exactly.
HAYES: And it`s interesting that you noted that too. I do think, you know, we`ve seen the approval ratings come up for the president after the passage of the Inflation Reduction Act. And when you mentioned, you know -- you know, on shoring manufacturing or bringing prescription drugs down that second one being in the -- in the IRA, having a concrete thing to go tell voters -- I mean, how much does that matter, right? When you`re trying to sort of fight to a draw on that -- on that economic question, to say, look, we just did this thing. Here`s what I stand for.
MURPHY: It`s critical. I mean, voters are completely disillusioned with Washington, with politics. And they`re disillusioned with both parties, they don`t think either side gets anything done, they don`t really want to pay attention to the day-to-day sort of circus that they`re seeing in Washington.
And so, when you are a candidate running in a race, you have to imagine the voters will not hear about your accomplishments on their own. And if they don`t hear about it, they will just assume that you`ve done nothing.
And so, being able to go out there and point to things, and that doesn`t mean saying, look, I did the Inflation Reduction Act and calling these things out by their bills names and things like that.
Obviously, you know, voters don`t need to know the names of the bills passed. They need to know the ways in which you have fought for issues that matter to them, like bringing jobs back to the United States, you know, fighting -- you know, to reduce the -- you know, costs of everyday goods, prescription drug prices.
And Democrats right now, at this point in the cycle are the only party out there who have accomplishments to tout on that front.
HAYES: Yes, that`s a really good point. This is -- that was -- that was really interesting, Molly.
Molly Murphy, thank you very much.
MURPHY: Thank you.
HAYES: All right, more than 30 years ago, a black teenager was shot and killed by a white police officer. It`s a story that may sound familiar because it`s been repeated so many times.
And the aftermath stoke these very intense racial tensions in the New Jersey suburb where it happened.
Now, that suburb has its own particular story, and the incredible, lasting legacy of that violence is the subject of our next conversation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:53:36]
HAYES: On April 10th, 1990, Phillip Pannell a 16-year-old black teenager was shot and killed by a white police officer in the town of Teaneck, New Jersey.
Pannell and his friends were crossing through an elementary school parking lot when they were approached by a police vehicle.
According to witnesses, officers had their guns drawn as they open their doors and order the boys up against the wall of the school. Pannell ran and he was fatally shot in the back by police.
Protests and outrage followed. And the suburban New Jersey town that had once been thought of as a kind of racial utopia in America became defined by racial tension and outrage in the wake of the police shooting of Phillip Pannell.
Now, a new four-part series from MSNBC films called the "Model America" explores Pannell `s death, the truth about Teaneck supposedly integrated community and that goes from a generation ago that feels eerily present today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was no reason for that cop to shoot him in his back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he was going to shoot me, that`s the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My 16-year-old brother was slain 30 years ago in Teaneck, New Jersey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My shooting will never go away, it`s with me every day of my life.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was my child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We endured this pain for 30 years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we`re back here again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[20:55:13]
HAYES: Tyger Williams is the executive producer of "Model America". The four-part series premieres Sunday at 10:00 p.m. right here on MSNBC.
Mr. Williams, it`s great to have you on the program. Congrats on a great piece of work.
I think if you could talk a little bit to start out about Teaneck, New Jersey as a place and what makes it different in really key ways than some of the other bedroom communities in big metro areas that gave Teaneck this very specific reputation for many years before this shooting.
TYGER WILLIAMS, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "MODEL AMERICA": Yes, thank you. Thank you for having me. You know, Teaneck was unique in the sense that it was one of the first communities to voluntarily to have the segregated schools.
And just after the -- after World War II, he got the reputation of being a model community, of being a model America. That`s how it was marketed. That`s why people moved there. It was that very diverse socially, economically, culturally, racially.
And, you know, I think that`s unique in a lot of places. And so, this incident sort of uncovered things that hadn`t been dealt with, you know, for the residents.
HAYES: What does happen in the aftermath of Pannell shooting?
WILLIAMS: Well, the city kind of comes to a -- comes to a reckoning. You know, people thought things were fine. They thought everything was going well, everyone was getting along. And we discovered that people weren`t feeling like everything`s going along. People weren`t having those conversations. There were tensions, there had been tensions between the police and young black men in the community that people weren`t talking about.
And so, this really kind of opened the town`s eyes, the amount of rage, frustration, the shock that it could happen there. I think that was the biggest thing. No one ever thought it could happen there in Teaneck.
HAYES: I want to play just a little bit of some more footage because it`s really -- it`s compelling stuff about sort of how the community reacts when word comes around that this 16-year-old boy has been shot by a police, take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got a call from a liquor store owner in Teaneck, who was a friend of mine, and he just called me up kind of screaming and they said there was a shooting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, Teaneck police just shot somebody. They shot a young kid. They shot a black kid.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In Teaneck, a white cop shot a black kid? I can`t believe it. That`s not supposed to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAYES: It`s striking how contemporary so much of this story feels even though it`s 32 years ago, both in the details of what happened, in the aftermath that happened, some of the conversations that happened. How you see the kind of line between then and now?
WILLIAMS: I mean, that`s the thing that that drew me to the story and why we wanted to make it. It`s because it was 30 years ago, and things like this continue to happen. They`ve happened since, they probably happened before. It`s a tragedy. It`s a true tragedy.
And I think the summer of 2020 reminded us of that. And so really, you know, this project is really a call for a conversation, you know, a dialogue really, and unless we have these dialogues, things like this will continue to bubble up. And shock us and surprise us.
HAYES: There`s obviously, there were a lot of Black Lives Matter protests in the summer of 2020 in the town of Teaneck, there`s footage of that.
Was there any -- were there lessons learned? Were there improvements made? Was there something that came out of the aftermath of this that that looked like progress or did it sort of fade into the background until the next incident?
WILLIAMS: I think it -- sadly, it kind of lives with the residents. But I don`t know if anything was actively done about it, you know? Like, it lives with the residents. People have different opinions about what happened. Some people hold to the lines that they held in 1990. Some people have changed sides.
But it is still a divisive issue with the community. People are still surprised that it could happen in a place like Teaneck. And so, I think in making this documentary, it`s sort of allowed -- sort of people in the town to have this conversation.
HAYES: Yes. Tyger Williams, thank you so much for making time with us. It`s called "Model America" from MSNBC films that premieres Sunday night at 10:00 p.m. Eastern right here on MSNBC. It`s also streaming now on Peacock, you can check it out if you have Peacock.
That is ALL IN for this week. "ALEX WAGNER TONIGHT" starts right now. Good evening, Alex.